Page updated 29th May 2014

SOME THOUGHTS ON THE HENRY III CLASS 5D'S

By Mike R Vosper

A PRELIMINARY PAPER WAS GIVEN TO THE ESSEX NUMISMATIC SOCIETY FOR DISCUSSION 28/8/98. NOW REVISED WITH ADDITIONAL SPECIMENS.

ADDITIONS No. 24a, 27a and 36a ADDED 20/3/2000

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Back in May 1998, I purchased a group of Henry III Long-X Voided Pennies. There were approximately 430 in total, mostly of Canterbury. When I started sorting through this large number I spotted that something strange had happened in the so called class 5d's, it's 'mules' and also it's close relative, the class 5c.

For a start there were no 5d-e 'mules' present. There were some 5c's with a trefoil of pellets in the crown (Crown 2) (Coin nos. 1-5) (Obv. 1) and some had a lis in the reverse legend (Lis) (Coins no. 6-10) (Rev. 6). Secondly, the 5d's were of vastly different die cutting when you compare them as a group.

Three very different 5d's, old Class 5d. My new classes:-

5d1

5d2

5d3

I found it hard to except them all as just 5d's, especially when you consider the differences between a 5b & a 5c is a round eye or an oval eye! This intrigued me a little and I began to wonder if there were any divisible features in this group. The first thing I noticed was that there was a lot of 'muling' going on between 5c/5d, 5d/5c in the group and I wondered if these so called 'mules' were actually true 'mules'!

The easiest way to find out is to break the coins down into different features i.e. crowns, letter punches, style etc. See list of 41 coins below along with their different punches. It must be pointed out that all these classes are essentially artificial as these changes may have evolved over a period of time or even abruptly.

The coins so far recorded.

Coin No

 

Obv. die no.

Rev. die no.

Old Cl.

New Cl.

Provenance

View.

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For Sale

No.1

 

O.1

R.1

 5c

5c*

M.R.Vosper coll. purchased 5/98.

SOLD (*£69)

No.2

 

O.1

R.2

5c/5d

5c*/5d1

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. via The Lanes, Brighton 8/61.

SOLD

(*£100)

No.3

 

O.1

R.3

5c/5d

5c*/5d1

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. via Seabys 16/1/64, R.C.B., L.A.L. Lot 1049.

SOLD

(£185)

No.4

 

O.1

R.4

5c/5d

5c*/5d1

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. via Seabys 16/1/64, R.C.B., L.A.L.

 

SOLD

No.5

 

O.1

R.5

5c/5d

5c*/5d1

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. 1315 via Seabys 15/11/63.

 

SOLD

No.6

 

O.2

R.6

5c/5d

5c/5d.lis

M.R.Vosper coll. purchased 5/98.

SOLD

(£275)

No.7

 

O.2

R.6

5c/5d

5c/5d.lis

D.Palmer coll.

 N/A

 

No.8

 

O.2

R.6

5c/5d

5c/5d.lis

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. 1425 via Seabys 24/9/64, R.C.B., L.A.L. Lot 1049.

 

SOLD

No.11

 

O.3

R.2

5c/5d

5c/5d1

M.R.Vosper coll. purchased 5/98.

SOLD

(£45)

No.9

 

O.3

R.6

5c/5d

5c/5d.lis

North Vol. I Plate 20/31.

 N/A

 

No.10

 

O.3

R.6

5c/5d

5c/5d.lis

E.J. Auction, 10/4/84 No.1246a.

  N/A

 

No.12

 

O.4

R.5

5c/5d

5c/5d1

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. via Seabys 16/1/64, R.C.B., L.A.L.

SOLD

(£220)

No.13

 

O.4

R.5

5c/5d

5c/5d1

E.J. Auction, 10/4/84 No.1246b

 N/A 

 

No.15

 

O.5

R.4

5d

5d1

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. via Seabys. R.C.B.

SOLD

(£300)

No.14

 

O.5

R.6

5d

5d1/5d.lis

D.Palmer coll.

 N/A

 

No.16

 

O.5

R.7

5d

5d1

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. via Seabys 15/11/63., L.A.L. Lot 1050.

 

SOLD

No.17

 

O.5

R.7

5d

5d1

D.Palmer Coll.

 N/A

 

No.18

 

O.6

R.7

5d

5d1*

M.R.Vosper coll. old ticket.

SOLD

(£195)

No.19

 

O.7

R.8

5d

5d2

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. via Seabys 16/1/64, R.C.B., L.A.L. Lot 1050.

SOLD

(£230)

No.20

 

O.7

R.9

5d

5d2

M.R.Vosper coll. purchased Charings-X Market 3/10/98.

SOLD

(*£95)

No.21

 

O.8

R.10

5d

5d2

M.R.Vosper coll. purchased 1/98.

SOLD

(£165)

No.22

 

O.9

R.11

5d

5d2

M.R.Vosper coll. purcased 5/98.

SOLD

(*£165)

No.23

 

O.9

R.11

5d

5d2

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. 1192 via Seabys 3/63, R.C.B., L.A.L. Lot 1050.

 

No.24

 

O.9

R.12

5d

5d2

M.R.Vosper coll. purchased 9/97.

SOLD

(£235)

No.24a

 

O.9

R.12

5d

5d2

Private. coll.

 

 

No.25

 

O.10

R.8

5d

5d2*

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. 1194 via Seabys 3/63, R.C.B., L.A.L. Lot 1050.

SOLD

(£150)

No.26

 

O.11

R.13

5d

5d2*

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. 1331 via Seabys 11/1/64., R.C.B., L.A.L. Lot 1050.

SOLD

(£215)

No.27

 

O.12

R.14

5d

5d2*

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. via Seabys 15/11/63, R.C.B., L.A.L. lot 1050.

SOLD

(*£180)

No.27a

 

O.12

R.14

5d

5d2*

M.R.Vosper coll. Purchased 1/2000.

 

 

No.28

 

O.13

R.15

5d

5d2*

M.R.Vosper coll. purchased 8/99.

SOLD

(*£210)

No.29

 

O.14

R.15

5d

5d2*

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. E.J. Lot 1864.

SOLD

(£325)

No.30

 

O.14

R.16

5d

5d2*

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. 1426 via Seabys 24/9/64, R.C.B., L.A.L. Lot 1050.

SOLD

(£200)

No.31

 

O.14

R.17

5d

5d2*

M.R.Vosper coll. purchased 5/99.

SOLD

(£95)

No.32

 

O.15

R.18

5d

5d3/5d2*

M.R.Vosper coll. purchased 9/97

SOLD

(£300)

No.34

 

O.15

R.19

 5d/5c

 5d3

D.Palmer coll.

 N/A

 

No.33

 

O.16

R.19

 5d/5c

 5d3

North Vol. I Plate 20/32.

 N/A

 

No.35

 

O.15

R.21

5d/5c

5d3

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. via Seabys 3/63, R.C.B.

SOLD

(£395)

No.36

 

O.17

R.20

5d

5d3/5d2

E.J. Auction, 10/4/84 No.1546.

  N/A

 

No.36a

 

O.17

R.16a

5d

5d3/5d2*

M.R.Vosper coll. Purchased 2/2000

SOLD

(£190)

No.37

 

O.17

R.22

5d/5c

5d3

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. 1426 via Seabys 3/63, R.C.B., L.A.L. Lot 1049.

SOLD

(£285)

No.38

 

O.17

R.22

5d/5c

5d3

M.R.Vosper coll. purchased 9/97

 

SOLD

No.39

 

O.17

R.22

5d/5c

5d3

M.R.Vosper coll. purcased 6/98.

 

SOLD

No.40

 

O.18

R.23

5d/5c

5d3*

M.R.Vosper coll. Ex. P.W. via Seabys 4/63., L.A.L. Lot 1049.

SOLD

(£325)

No.41

 

O.18

R.23

5d/5c

5d3*

M.R.Vosper coll. purchased 6/98.

 

SOLD

Key to Provenances:-

P.W. = Ex. Peter Woodhead collection. R.C.B. = Ex. R. Carlyon Britton collection. L.A.L. = Ex. L. A. Lawrance collection. E.J. = Ex. F. Elmore Jones collection.

The first thing you will notice is that I have split them into groups representing my new class structure (5d1, 5d2 & 5d3 with additional * varieties) I've also included the old class numbers 5c/5d 5d & 5d/5c as well.

Thoughts on each individual group

Firstly lets look at class 5c with the trefoil crown (see my class 5c*, coins 1-5) (Obv. 1) You will notice that I have given it 5c* as a true 5c as this has a crown of 3 pellets joined by lines (see 'crowns' fig. 1.) and not a trefoil (see 'crowns' fig. 2.) thus showing it not to be a true 5c, but every other characteristic i.e. 'h,S,R' and most importantly the 'X' (see letter X fig. 1) is as a 5c. I've included this as it's more often than not 'muled' with a 5d reverse (see my class 5d1, reverses 2,3,4 & 5). Going back to the 430 or so coins, the only 5c* true is shown (see coin 1.) & 5c*/5d1 'mules' are represented by no less than 4 coins (see coins 2,3,4 & 5) thus one may assume that the 5c* obverse was probably made to pair with a 5d reverse thus not a true 'mule'? To top this I have another three obverses, this time with the correct crown punch (see 'crowns' fig. 1.) for a 5c. Firstly:- obverse 2 (see my class 5c, coins 6,7 & 8.) this time with an extremely unusual feature, a lis (lis) in the reverse legend (reverse 6, see my class 5d lis., coins 6,7 & 8.) true coins or 'mules'? Probably true coins as I have only found it with my class 5d lis reverse (5d lis rev.) Second & thirdly:- obverse 3 (see my class 5c, coins 9,10 & 11.) & obverse 4 (see my class 5c, coins 12 & 13.) coins, again I had 430 coins, this time these class 5c obverse's were only found paired together with a 5d reverse (reverses 2, 5 & 6) of some description. So are these true coins or 'mules' because these obverse's were not found paired with a reverse of any 5c?

Crown 1 Crown 2

Crown 3 single Crown 3 double

h ty.1. h ty.2. h ty.3.

Lis

R ty.1. R ty.2. R ty.3. R ty.4.

S ty.1. S ty.2.

X ty.1. X ty.2.

Secondly the 3 main 5d groupings are easily distinguishable by these facts:-


Style:-

(1) 5d1. Has a crude representation of the bust. (coin 14-18, obv. 5 & 6) Suggested alternative name is Cl.5d crude.
(2) 5d2. Usual later class 5 style bust (comparable to 5e, f & g) (coins 19-31, obv. 7-14) Suggested alternative name is Cl.5d normal.
(3) 5d3. Unusually fine in style (superior to any other Henry III Long-X Pennies) (coin 32-41, obv. 15-18) Suggested alternative name is Cl.5d fine.

Die-cutting:-

(1) 5d1. Crude, inner circles irregular with over-lapping pellets & double-cutting of Voided Long-X. (i.c.s. are c9.5mm). Suggested alternative name is Cl.5d crude.
(2) 5d2. Normal quality of die-cutting generally very well placed and no over cutting to correct pellets & lines (i.c.s are c9.5mm). Suggested alternative name is Cl.5d normal.
(3) 5d3. Unusually fine die-cutting with no re-cutting of the dies and well executed pellets & lines (i.c.s are c10mm). Suggested alternative name is Cl.5d fine.


The above facts make these classes (5d1, 2, & 3) easily distinguishable. Other facts make it obvious that they should be listed as separate classes.


Class 5c and d obverses

Die

Obv. legend

Crown

h

S

R

X

ENR

Old Cl.

New Cl.

O.1

2

1

1

1

1

 5c

5c* 

O.2

 

1

1

1

1

1

 5c

5c 

O.3

1

1

1

1

1

5c

5c

O.4

(?)

1

1

1

1

1

5c

5c

O.5

 

1 crude

1

2

2

2

5d

5d1

O.6

 

3s crude

1

2

2

2

5d

5d1*

O.7

 

3s

1

2

3

2

5d

5d2

O.8

 

3s

1

2

3

2

5d

5d2

O.9

 

3s

1

2

3

2

5d

5d2

O.10

 

3s

2

2

3

2

5d

5d2*

O.11

 

3s

2

2

3

2

5d

5d2*

O.12

 (?)

3d

2

2

3

2

5d

5d2*

O.13

3s

2

2

3

2

5d

5d2*

O.14

 

3s

2

2

3

2

5d

5d2*

O.15

 

3d

2

2

4

2

5d

5d3

O.16

3d

2

2

3

2

5d

5d2*

O.17

 

3d

3

2

4

2

5d

5d3

O.18

 

3s

3

2

4

2

5d

5d3*

A simplified format of Class 5d may be taken as follows

Class

Style

Crown-band

h

N's

Before III

Notes

5d1

Crude

single

1

N rev. barred

-

REX (sceptre) III

5d1*

Crude

single

1

N

-

RE (sceptre) XIII

5d2

Normal

single

1

N

-

Single band, h's tail inward

5d2*

Normal

single of 2

2

N, H, N rev. barred

-

Signs of dbl-banding, h's tail outward

5d3

Fine

single

2 & 3

N rev. barred

pellet

Single crown band

5d3*

Fine

double

3

N rev. barred

pellet

Dbl. crown band

Class 5c and d reverses

Rev. Die

Rev. legend

h

S

R

Special Features

Old Cl.

New Cl.

R.1

-

-

1

-

5c

5c*

R.2

-

-

-

-

5d

5d1

R.3

2

-

-

-

5d

5d1

R.4

-

-

-

-

5d

5d1

R.5

-

-

4

-

5d

5d1

R.6

1

-

-

Lis

5d

5d. Lis

R.7

1

-

-

-

5d

5d1

R.8

 

2

-

-

-

5d

5d2

R.9

-

-

-

-

5d

5d2

R.10

 

-

-

-

-

5d

5d2

R.11

-

-

-

-

5d

5d2

R.12

2

-

-

-

5d

5d2

R.13

 

2

-

-

-

5d

5d2

R.14

2

-

-

5d

5d2

R.15

-

-

-

-

5d

5d2

R.16

-

-

-

-

5d

5d2

R.16a

-

-

-

-

5d

5d2

R.17

-

-

4?

-

5d

5d2

R.18

-

-

4

-

5d

5d2

R.19

-

-

-

-

5c

5d3

R.20

-

-

?

A

5d

5d2

R.21

-

-

4

-

5c

5d3

R.22

1

2

4

-

5c

5d3

R.23

-

-

4

-

5c

5d3

A simplified format of Class 5d may be taken as follows

Class

Style

Inner-circles

I.c. diameter

3 pellets in angles

Voided-x

K or C?

Legend pellets

5d1

Crude

irregular

9.5mm

overlapping

re-cutting

K

 -

5d2

Normal

regular

9.5mm

usual

normal

K

 -

5d3

Fine

well executed

10mm

well spaced

well placed

C

 on an N or in legend


There are only 3 mints operating in class 5d, Canterbury, as per this work, London & Bury St Edmunds. The moneyers (Italic type) are the moneyers that we have for Canterbury:-

Canterbury

1. Gilbert

2. Ion, Ioh, Ioh (with lis in legend), Iohs or Iohanes

3. Nicole or Nichole

4. Robert or Roberd (spelt with retrograde B)

5. Walter

6. Willem or Willeme

London

1. Davi or David

2. Henry

3. Ion, Ioh, Iohs or Iohanes

4. Ricard

5. Walter

6. Willem

Bury St Edmunds

1. Randulf


In this particular paper I am only discussing the Canterbury mint. London & Bury St Edmunds may not fit this criteria, though no attempt has been made. Bury St Edmunds has only one pair of dies known, so classification will be simple.


Conclusion

The 5c & 5c* & its 'mules' listed in this paper are strange, to say the least, especially considering no links were found with obverses of 5c true and reverses of 5c. To make this even more stranger I have the unusual trefoil crown which is almost always 'muled'. The lis reverse type which is traditionally listed as a 5d is always 'muled' with a traditional 5c. No conclusions can be drawn from this, are there any suggestions?

As you can see from the above, you now know why I've questioned all the coins being listed as just 5d's.

The 5d's go through a dramatic change in style from the crudest, of any Long-X Voided Pennies, to an unusually fine style. I do wonder if this represents some politics of the time. Some suggestions may be that perhaps the original die-cutter was no longer available (died) thus an emergency die-cutter was introduced who produced the crude 5d's and later a suitable replacement was then found who manufactured the fine style. Or there may have been a big shake up at the mints with persons removed due to manufacturing under-weight coins, forgeries and such like. These are very loose ideas & represent pure speculation as I have not at this stage investigated what exactly happened during this period. Suggestions?


The so-called old class 'mule' 5d/5c's
(my 5d3, coins 33-35, 37-41) has a 'C' in the reverse legend rather than a 'k'. This is the only fact that supports the old class being a 5c on the reverse. This is incorrect as all are in fact true 5d's and not 'mules'. There are certain facts to support this:-
(1) Style of die-cutting, such as my 5d3 obverses, is well executed.
(2) 'h' & 'R's, such as my 5d3 obverses.
(3) Pellets are found on my 5d3 obverses just before III in 'hENRICVS REX III'. These occur also on the so-called old class 5c in the reverse legend & on the 'N's, the same as my 5d3's.

So you can see the obverse originally listed as a 5d with a reverse of 5c was in fact cut at the same time as the obverse and probably by the same hand, thus a true 5d of fine style.

I hope that this paper is of interest, even to the Numismatists that have no particular interest in Henry III pennies, and I look forward to receiving any correspondence on this particular subject, or for that matter any coin related research.

Regards,

Mike R Vosper.

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